I’ve never understood that either. It was a digital product so they didn’t have to contend with shipping costs or any of the other normal issues that are problematic for American companies trying to do business in Europe.
Substack can't be used by writers in several countries due to Stripe's operations not being global. Vella seemed like another Amazon experiment which didn't pan out, but the lack of expansion wasn't the problem. The payment/reward token system they used was apparently a tricky beast. Vella was also not available on Kindle Readers, due to the gamification and social promotion aspects, which veered away from the typical solo reader experience. And when it did launch, it was only on the AMZ website or Kindle mobile app (and this was for iOS / US English only). AMZ would never expand something that wasn't making sufficient money.
Love the ideas. I think Substack fiction is still in a prenatal aw shucks loop. It's hard to get traction, and people fade away, or switch to non fiction, or go hybrid, and get frustrated. Because it is frustrating. There is really a small hardcore group of fiction writers here consistently cranking out the goods. I am personally very curious to see what can happen.
hey Caz! Thanks for chiming in. Let’s look at your points.
Regarding writers with the most numbers being rewarded, sure. That’s always true. Not all of those writers are on Substack. More importantly not all of those writers’ fans are on Substack. The goal of this contest would be to grow the number of people who are interested in fiction. Also, being a ‘big’ writer is a matter of perspective. You have the Harlan Corbens or Stephen Kings, but you also have thousands of authors whose names aren’t known but whose books always hit the top of the charts on Amazon. I don’t know that we’re going to have any luck trying to get someone like Stephen King to join and use Substack, but those midlist authors with devoted fanbases could be swayed. We might get them to join and bring their fans with them. And if we get a thousand more people here who love fiction, doesn’t that help everyone who is writing fiction??
Is it a short term pyramid scheme? Well, duration would depend on funding, but it totally is a pyramid scheme in that if you happen to be the niece of some famous author and you can get that author to join and they get so many of their fans to join that they end up winning the contest, I feel like both of you should win prizes. I want to reward the person who does the initial recruiting because that famous author wouldn’t have joined without your invitation.
If the competition lasted for multiple years, why not start it over? Do you see any problem with that? I think that once the fiction community gets past the problems of gaining traction that maybe it should shift in focus to being more concerned with quality fiction similar to how the Vellas were, but honestly, I haven’t thought that far ahead because that’s 5 years down the road.
And the part about fake accounts is addressed in my footnote. I didn’t really propose many solutions there because that’s feels more like a developer thing in that I feel like those guys are more familiar with how to fight bots and things like that, but I didn’t want to highlight the issue and potential problems.
As I said, I need to read this again. My initial comment was flippant.
It seems to be a complicated solution to an ill-defined problem.
What's the baseline number of fiction writers and baseline fiction readers on Substack?
Would Substack agree to measure the success and stickiness of new writers and new fiction subscribers?
Would Substack be comfortable with setting up and issuing codes, etc, and with collating data, and policing for auto generated fake accounts?
The backend admin alone would cost more than the $25K reward money (or whatever amount).
Again, I've only skimmed once. I don't yet grasp the burning problem in need of a complicated and novelty solution.
I'm loath to mention credentials, but three decades in analysis, and a lot of that in IT, and well a social scientist. I'm seeing little red lights all over the place.
For the broader Substack, yes, they really should target romance and romance fantasy writers, that market is always the biggest, and it's sticky. Although those readers tend to stay in their lane. Still, it would be good for Substack generically.
There are quite a few very famous and award winning fiction writers on Substack already - even if none are named Stephen King - who instantly gain tens of thousands of subscribers. I've seen / read no evidence that those writers help translate growth to any of the smaller fiction writers.
Sounds like a great idea. I joined Substack about 4 months ago and as a writer, I’m loving it. As far as social media goes, I feel like it’s the best fit for writers. My one suggestion for the “Stackies” contest is to make sure there’s a good variety of genre categories. For example, I write humorous fantasy and I’ve noticed most writing contests have a singular “fantasy” category. Humor doesn’t usually win unless there’s a specific humor category. I imagine it’s the same for other niche categories as well. Otherwise, I really like the idea.
Welcome to Substack! I’m glad you’re here. I completely agree with your point. We really need a more robust categorization that’s representative of all genres.
Not unique to Substack, however, it's worth considering the time economy, and reduced attention spans. Lots of people want to read more fiction, but don't.
Gaining and retaining an audience for fiction on this platform is really hard for fiction writers. Holding that audience week after week is a major hurdle.
The thing about romance readers is that they tend to be big readers. Yes, it’s true that some will only read romance, but many will stray into other genres. On its face, yes, it seems like it would only benefit romance authors, but I really believe that it would help everyone. Do you only read one genre or do you find yourself having multiple interests?
That being said, if you can write romance and enjoy the genre, yeah, you should jump in. 😁
The clear goal here is to simply increase the number of fiction-first-readers here on this platform. Do I have that right, John? I think Mills said something in your interview with him that rings completely true: 10x'ing the number of users on the substack app will do more for the fiction writers here than fixing crap infrastructure of the categories (granted he also said this when the categories were worse than they are now, though perfect they are not). To that end, bringing tons of fiction-first users is Very Obviously A Good Thing for the rest of us. "A rising tide lifts all boats," and what not.
I also believe there will never be a perfect way to do that. But also: that's marketing. Growth is always a moving target, and if there was a single answer that always works everyone would already be doing it, and soon the market conditions will shift and it will stop working.
So, to your idea, John. I think this is worthwhile, but I also think that you'll get (unfair) resistance to the idea because it is almost entirely disconnected from the quality of an author's writing. Instead, it's about how well they can bring in eyes from off-platform.
I think that's fine because that's the point. It's rewarding people who can "sell" our community to the wider world. Theoretically, that person could be not a fiction writer at all, right? They just need to build an off-platform discovery funnel, rake in the new users, cash in on the prize. Right? Is that a problem? Maybe not, if the pure goal is to "bring in the tide" that will, eventually, raise the boats. It's not *entirely* different from hiring a marketing consultant... But this idea of yours NOT a writing contest. It's a SALES contest, but one that could have genuine downstream effects for us all. And the extent to which you benefit downstream is based on quality of writing. Some people won't want it to be a sales contest, but I think that's missing the point.
The cash could interest non-substack authors to join in, bringing an audience with them, a very obviously good thing for us all. But then how would we track things like imported lists? If you only bring in email subscribers who never touch the app, then discoverability for the rest of us towards those users is nil.
Also: if any of us were already really good at off-platform promotion, we would already be doing it, right? Like if I had the time to build a larger off-platform discovery funnel, I already would have done that for my own publication. Now maybe if I had a chance at $5,000 I'd make the time and put in more effort, but you see what I'm saying... We're incentivizing everyone to solve a problem they're already at least tacitly incentivized to solve, one that many have tried to solve, one that many have failed to solve... at least on their own. This ups the ante, though ... It's not a bad idea.
There’s a lot of merit to your objections, but I believe there’s an aspect that you are overlooking. Writers talk to writers. They hang out in online forums outside of Substack. maybe not the people who are writing exclusively for Substack, but once you start to look at people who have already published on Amazon they are almost universally active in some type of writing or self-publishing forum. That’s what I’m hoping to leverage for something like this.
It’s that and specifically going after authors who are currently using Vella.Once March 1st comes all of that content is either going to stay on Amazon or it’ll be moved to Radish (if it’s a romance story). Why shouldn’t at least some of it come here? Those stories may not have large enough audiences to justify further investment at Amazon scale, but Substack is not at Amazon scale. Those same stories here—those same audiences—coming here to read those stories and even pay for those stories (they were paying for them on Vella) could be a great thing not only for fiction, but for all of Substack.
Yes, there are probably a host of problems and possible exploits for how I’ve set this up. I’m not a professional at marketing or making contests, but Substack employs people who are. I’m not emotionally tied to the specifics of this contest. I don’t even care if someone comes up with a better idea that ends up being adopted. I just want to see some movement. Take a step and do something to try to attract this group of authors. That’s all I’m after.
1,000% on what you're after. My objections are actually less "objections to progress" and more me trying to ask "how can we optimize and incentivize the right thing?"; I'm thinking out loud towards iteration, not trying to throw road blocks.
I think you're absolutely right that NOW is the time to bring in new authors who already have off-platform audiences & networks. The impetus should be on tempting those people in in order to infiltrate (infiltrate? I can't think of a less dastardly verb) those networks and forums. The goal of leveraging EXISTING players in those spaces is a great one. It's why platforms often give cash payouts to early adopters, because hopefully early adopters can convince more and more people over until it Crosses the Chasm* and becomes an "Early Majority".
*google: Crossing the Chasm, but Geoffrey A. Moore.
It would be good to hear from writers, and whether they would have the sustained time and level of energy, and what dollar incentive would elicit their commitment (when competing with a few thousand other people, for example).
More readers?
We all know that it's long overdue for Substack to expand the fiction discovery to cover standard genres, poetry, and illustrated stories. And to give fiction writers and an extra field to select a primary category and up to two subcategories.
That's how to get more fiction readers, who currently have to poke around in the dark and keep running into newsletters that want to inspire or teach them or yarn about fiction, rather than fiction itself.
I say 'standard' genres (yes, there's a list), because that's the only legitimate starting line.
I'm aware that even traditionally published writers can be annoyed with how their books are categorised. No one is ever happy where they land on the shelf, everyone thinks they're special. Yes, every fiction writer thinks they're a snowflake.
Start with giving fiction writers control over how they're categorised on Substack. Start with giving readers robust fiction categories to puruse, not the black hole of 'fiction' and 'literature'. (Last time I checked, literature is still fiction. Yes, we all love tautologies.)
Substack needs to start treating fiction writers and fiction readers like grown ups.
Start treating fiction as it is in the real world: BIG business. VERY BIG.
It's not cute and fuzzy and liberating and holding hands singing Kumbaya. It's not a fooking side hustle.
While this is a great idea, my biggest concern is with the directory aspect Vella had. One that Substack lacks. The awards are great for vets here who already know each other but I’m not sure how that helps the new amateur who’s starting out. Strangely enough I have a Note in my iPhone from years ago that outlines The Stackys. But in my case it was more of a List of the Top 100 that would break it down by genre. Never shared or showed anyone. It was going to be a dedicated webpage with images of each Substack account clickable back to their publication to sign-up. Similar to Bookfunnel but for entire publications instead of just one book.
But going back to the lack of proper directory. This is what’s missing. A proper website that can showcase serialized fiction, short stories, etc in a way that visually excites a reader to want to read the work. Unfortunately, such a venture is just not possible on Substack just for the simple fact that it lacks the ability to put images side by side. Crazy to think that if we just had that possibility it would open up so many doors for the fiction community…
I’m working on discoverability through TiF for finding specific genres and serials but as I said I simply can’t exist on Substack. It would need to be a stand apart website where every click goes back to Substack or has the box where a person can enter their email to subscribe to that publication.
Having a name and a place outside of Substack that points to it in order to have better viewing options is the only way to improve discoverability thereby opening up opportunity for things like awards and possibly grants or prizes.
I have much more to say on the subject that I’ve been thinking about for at least the last decade that I’ve been constantly iterating how I can help fiction writers with visibility. Substack is just a tool in my latest iteration of what that might be for now…
I don’t think we need to gamify bringing in readers, I think we just need to bring in the damn readers. Where are the Vella readers going now? There’s another romance reading app already out there, for example.
It’s been a while since I’ve been in the romance publishing biz but I follow a few fantasy romance authors and there are still Book Events and Reader Conferences. And as an SFF reader there are plenty of US regional writer/reader SFF conferences as well that aren’t ComicCon. Substack needs to get its marketing arm together and start being present in these spaces and/or providing tools for authors already present in those spaces. Perhaps a twist would be an online readers convention, consisting of Live chats with authors, readings—and whether it’s free or paid, you’d have to have an account to gain access so the convention content. One could do streams for romance, fantasy, horror, etc. But again would require getting the word out to the reading community and I’m not a Booktoker.
Substack also needs to give a Vella Creator Prize out like it did for TikTok and I don’t think it needs to be a huge amount of money because getting the word out about the prize will bring in authors and their lists just to try out the space (I am assuming that Vella authors were wise in starting their own mailing lists to notify readers of their new releases as I doubt they get to know who is reading them on Vella). I’ve seen several Vella authors already set up shop here. Maybe an On Substack post, or some such that points Vella authors to the already existing fiction writing community so we can support each other. (Actually has there been a post dedicated to fiction the way there has been for predictive gambling (or stock market or whatever that thing was), podcasts or video?)
Hi John. I couldn't experience Vella directly as I don't live in America, but I just wanted to double check that you're suggesting that Substack fiction writers enter a popularity contest without having to submit any actual writing? And this is supposed to promote the depth and quality of fiction to be found on the Substack platform, or... ? You might have guessed I'm a bit dubious about how this proposal is being framed. The network effects already at play will swamp any contest. The winner will be someone who is already popular with a wide reach and who can effectively lever their network. They will spend significant time and effort to promote such a competition, because of the size of the reward to be had. You're in effect suggesting to hand a bag of gold coins to an existing lady or lord of the Substack manor. Please tell me I've got this wrong!
I’m not sure you’d be handing a bag of gold to existing Substack royalty so much as whoever has the best network. Now maybe that is someone who is already doing well on Substack. Maybe it’s someone who has a connection that they could leverage, but isn’t part of the described royalty.
The goal is to get new readers to join. In my thinking the best way to do that is to find people who already enjoy reading some person and getting that person to persuade their readers to come here.
In a reply to Caz I mentioned how that in time the focus should shift from growth to being about the quality of fiction. I think that’s the ultimate goal, but I believe we need growth to get things started.
I think rewarding great writing is fine, but I’m not sure that is as immediately effective at growth as what I’ve proposed. There is already great writing on Substack. Are we seeing tens of thousands of people signing up (in a short period of time) to enjoy it? Great writing works and will grow a platform, but it’s a long game.
The end goal for what I am proposing is capitalizing on the fact that Vella is shutting down and trying to persuade those authors to bring their audiences here… which led to the referral system I described.
I am open to better suggestions and I’m sure that there are better plans to be made, but this is the one I came up with. I would love to hear how you feel a contest like this should be run to gain new users and seize on the opportunity created by Vella’s closure.
Some of us can't have paid subscriber because of Stripe requirements, so that about "getting paid subscribers" would actually exclude me and some other Spanish writers.
I like the competition idea and I love the heart behind it trying to bring in more people!
Logistically, I do have a few questions:
1. Is the end goal to entice more *writers* to Substack, or more readers/users? If it's the former, I agree with Johnathan's assessment that the competition should involve writing metrics to some degree. If we aren't promoting the writing itself then what are we actually proving? If the goal is more readers and/or Substack users in general, I think a numbers metric would be a perfectly fine metric.
2. Are you looking to solely crowdfund money, or pitch something to Substack leadership i.e. what they recently tried to do with TikToc creators but maybe on a smaller scale? I do feel like this is the kind of endeavor that would be more beneficial if we have their blessing/support. If not, who runs it? For how long? What are the second/third order effects that may spring from that? Because this feel like you're trying to imagine something bigger than, say the Lunar Awards or TiF. And that's commendable, but requires infrastructure and dedicated manpower.
3. I'm sure this is the simplest answer, but where are the links generated from? Who manages them? And how does one track the pyramid aspect of it? For instance, if Reader A and Reader C gave my link to Reader B, how do you know which one gets "credit" for it? Basic logistics on that one, I'm sure. But it popped in my head and so there it is.
Like I said, though. I love the intent. If it gets off the ground, I'm right there with you.
Vella's biggest flaw was not allowing non-American writers to participate. Any attempt to replicate it on Substack would not have that problem.
I’ve never understood that either. It was a digital product so they didn’t have to contend with shipping costs or any of the other normal issues that are problematic for American companies trying to do business in Europe.
Or the whole of the other continents in the world, which collectively comprise the majority of the global population? 😁
Substack can't be used by writers in several countries due to Stripe's operations not being global. Vella seemed like another Amazon experiment which didn't pan out, but the lack of expansion wasn't the problem. The payment/reward token system they used was apparently a tricky beast. Vella was also not available on Kindle Readers, due to the gamification and social promotion aspects, which veered away from the typical solo reader experience. And when it did launch, it was only on the AMZ website or Kindle mobile app (and this was for iOS / US English only). AMZ would never expand something that wasn't making sufficient money.
Maybe Substack needs to ditch Stripe.
Or at least offer alternative payment options for people who would prefer to use a different vendor.
One which does the things that Stripe doesn't for a lesser cut.
Love the ideas. I think Substack fiction is still in a prenatal aw shucks loop. It's hard to get traction, and people fade away, or switch to non fiction, or go hybrid, and get frustrated. Because it is frustrating. There is really a small hardcore group of fiction writers here consistently cranking out the goods. I am personally very curious to see what can happen.
I dunno. I'll need to read that again.
Aren't the writers with the most numbers already rewarded?
Is this a short term pyramid scheme? 😂
Would a new competition start over when the last one finishes, like lotteries?
Yes, fake accounts can be generated by the thousands, which would be a problem.
hey Caz! Thanks for chiming in. Let’s look at your points.
Regarding writers with the most numbers being rewarded, sure. That’s always true. Not all of those writers are on Substack. More importantly not all of those writers’ fans are on Substack. The goal of this contest would be to grow the number of people who are interested in fiction. Also, being a ‘big’ writer is a matter of perspective. You have the Harlan Corbens or Stephen Kings, but you also have thousands of authors whose names aren’t known but whose books always hit the top of the charts on Amazon. I don’t know that we’re going to have any luck trying to get someone like Stephen King to join and use Substack, but those midlist authors with devoted fanbases could be swayed. We might get them to join and bring their fans with them. And if we get a thousand more people here who love fiction, doesn’t that help everyone who is writing fiction??
Is it a short term pyramid scheme? Well, duration would depend on funding, but it totally is a pyramid scheme in that if you happen to be the niece of some famous author and you can get that author to join and they get so many of their fans to join that they end up winning the contest, I feel like both of you should win prizes. I want to reward the person who does the initial recruiting because that famous author wouldn’t have joined without your invitation.
If the competition lasted for multiple years, why not start it over? Do you see any problem with that? I think that once the fiction community gets past the problems of gaining traction that maybe it should shift in focus to being more concerned with quality fiction similar to how the Vellas were, but honestly, I haven’t thought that far ahead because that’s 5 years down the road.
And the part about fake accounts is addressed in my footnote. I didn’t really propose many solutions there because that’s feels more like a developer thing in that I feel like those guys are more familiar with how to fight bots and things like that, but I didn’t want to highlight the issue and potential problems.
As I said, I need to read this again. My initial comment was flippant.
It seems to be a complicated solution to an ill-defined problem.
What's the baseline number of fiction writers and baseline fiction readers on Substack?
Would Substack agree to measure the success and stickiness of new writers and new fiction subscribers?
Would Substack be comfortable with setting up and issuing codes, etc, and with collating data, and policing for auto generated fake accounts?
The backend admin alone would cost more than the $25K reward money (or whatever amount).
Again, I've only skimmed once. I don't yet grasp the burning problem in need of a complicated and novelty solution.
I'm loath to mention credentials, but three decades in analysis, and a lot of that in IT, and well a social scientist. I'm seeing little red lights all over the place.
For the broader Substack, yes, they really should target romance and romance fantasy writers, that market is always the biggest, and it's sticky. Although those readers tend to stay in their lane. Still, it would be good for Substack generically.
There are quite a few very famous and award winning fiction writers on Substack already - even if none are named Stephen King - who instantly gain tens of thousands of subscribers. I've seen / read no evidence that those writers help translate growth to any of the smaller fiction writers.
As I said, I need to read again.
Sounds like a great idea. I joined Substack about 4 months ago and as a writer, I’m loving it. As far as social media goes, I feel like it’s the best fit for writers. My one suggestion for the “Stackies” contest is to make sure there’s a good variety of genre categories. For example, I write humorous fantasy and I’ve noticed most writing contests have a singular “fantasy” category. Humor doesn’t usually win unless there’s a specific humor category. I imagine it’s the same for other niche categories as well. Otherwise, I really like the idea.
Welcome to Substack! I’m glad you’re here. I completely agree with your point. We really need a more robust categorization that’s representative of all genres.
Not unique to Substack, however, it's worth considering the time economy, and reduced attention spans. Lots of people want to read more fiction, but don't.
Gaining and retaining an audience for fiction on this platform is really hard for fiction writers. Holding that audience week after week is a major hurdle.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/feb/12/australians-want-to-read-more-books-what-is-stopping-us?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
Might as well just start writing romance.
The thing about romance readers is that they tend to be big readers. Yes, it’s true that some will only read romance, but many will stray into other genres. On its face, yes, it seems like it would only benefit romance authors, but I really believe that it would help everyone. Do you only read one genre or do you find yourself having multiple interests?
That being said, if you can write romance and enjoy the genre, yeah, you should jump in. 😁
I have no experience writing romance yet, but as the saying goes, “fish where the fish are”.
The clear goal here is to simply increase the number of fiction-first-readers here on this platform. Do I have that right, John? I think Mills said something in your interview with him that rings completely true: 10x'ing the number of users on the substack app will do more for the fiction writers here than fixing crap infrastructure of the categories (granted he also said this when the categories were worse than they are now, though perfect they are not). To that end, bringing tons of fiction-first users is Very Obviously A Good Thing for the rest of us. "A rising tide lifts all boats," and what not.
I also believe there will never be a perfect way to do that. But also: that's marketing. Growth is always a moving target, and if there was a single answer that always works everyone would already be doing it, and soon the market conditions will shift and it will stop working.
So, to your idea, John. I think this is worthwhile, but I also think that you'll get (unfair) resistance to the idea because it is almost entirely disconnected from the quality of an author's writing. Instead, it's about how well they can bring in eyes from off-platform.
I think that's fine because that's the point. It's rewarding people who can "sell" our community to the wider world. Theoretically, that person could be not a fiction writer at all, right? They just need to build an off-platform discovery funnel, rake in the new users, cash in on the prize. Right? Is that a problem? Maybe not, if the pure goal is to "bring in the tide" that will, eventually, raise the boats. It's not *entirely* different from hiring a marketing consultant... But this idea of yours NOT a writing contest. It's a SALES contest, but one that could have genuine downstream effects for us all. And the extent to which you benefit downstream is based on quality of writing. Some people won't want it to be a sales contest, but I think that's missing the point.
The cash could interest non-substack authors to join in, bringing an audience with them, a very obviously good thing for us all. But then how would we track things like imported lists? If you only bring in email subscribers who never touch the app, then discoverability for the rest of us towards those users is nil.
Also: if any of us were already really good at off-platform promotion, we would already be doing it, right? Like if I had the time to build a larger off-platform discovery funnel, I already would have done that for my own publication. Now maybe if I had a chance at $5,000 I'd make the time and put in more effort, but you see what I'm saying... We're incentivizing everyone to solve a problem they're already at least tacitly incentivized to solve, one that many have tried to solve, one that many have failed to solve... at least on their own. This ups the ante, though ... It's not a bad idea.
There’s a lot of merit to your objections, but I believe there’s an aspect that you are overlooking. Writers talk to writers. They hang out in online forums outside of Substack. maybe not the people who are writing exclusively for Substack, but once you start to look at people who have already published on Amazon they are almost universally active in some type of writing or self-publishing forum. That’s what I’m hoping to leverage for something like this.
It’s that and specifically going after authors who are currently using Vella.Once March 1st comes all of that content is either going to stay on Amazon or it’ll be moved to Radish (if it’s a romance story). Why shouldn’t at least some of it come here? Those stories may not have large enough audiences to justify further investment at Amazon scale, but Substack is not at Amazon scale. Those same stories here—those same audiences—coming here to read those stories and even pay for those stories (they were paying for them on Vella) could be a great thing not only for fiction, but for all of Substack.
Yes, there are probably a host of problems and possible exploits for how I’ve set this up. I’m not a professional at marketing or making contests, but Substack employs people who are. I’m not emotionally tied to the specifics of this contest. I don’t even care if someone comes up with a better idea that ends up being adopted. I just want to see some movement. Take a step and do something to try to attract this group of authors. That’s all I’m after.
1,000% on what you're after. My objections are actually less "objections to progress" and more me trying to ask "how can we optimize and incentivize the right thing?"; I'm thinking out loud towards iteration, not trying to throw road blocks.
I think you're absolutely right that NOW is the time to bring in new authors who already have off-platform audiences & networks. The impetus should be on tempting those people in in order to infiltrate (infiltrate? I can't think of a less dastardly verb) those networks and forums. The goal of leveraging EXISTING players in those spaces is a great one. It's why platforms often give cash payouts to early adopters, because hopefully early adopters can convince more and more people over until it Crosses the Chasm* and becomes an "Early Majority".
*google: Crossing the Chasm, but Geoffrey A. Moore.
Exactly.
My previous comments stand.
It would be good to hear from writers, and whether they would have the sustained time and level of energy, and what dollar incentive would elicit their commitment (when competing with a few thousand other people, for example).
More readers?
We all know that it's long overdue for Substack to expand the fiction discovery to cover standard genres, poetry, and illustrated stories. And to give fiction writers and an extra field to select a primary category and up to two subcategories.
That's how to get more fiction readers, who currently have to poke around in the dark and keep running into newsletters that want to inspire or teach them or yarn about fiction, rather than fiction itself.
I say 'standard' genres (yes, there's a list), because that's the only legitimate starting line.
I'm aware that even traditionally published writers can be annoyed with how their books are categorised. No one is ever happy where they land on the shelf, everyone thinks they're special. Yes, every fiction writer thinks they're a snowflake.
Start with giving fiction writers control over how they're categorised on Substack. Start with giving readers robust fiction categories to puruse, not the black hole of 'fiction' and 'literature'. (Last time I checked, literature is still fiction. Yes, we all love tautologies.)
Substack needs to start treating fiction writers and fiction readers like grown ups.
Start treating fiction as it is in the real world: BIG business. VERY BIG.
It's not cute and fuzzy and liberating and holding hands singing Kumbaya. It's not a fooking side hustle.
That's on Substack.
That's my rant.
While this is a great idea, my biggest concern is with the directory aspect Vella had. One that Substack lacks. The awards are great for vets here who already know each other but I’m not sure how that helps the new amateur who’s starting out. Strangely enough I have a Note in my iPhone from years ago that outlines The Stackys. But in my case it was more of a List of the Top 100 that would break it down by genre. Never shared or showed anyone. It was going to be a dedicated webpage with images of each Substack account clickable back to their publication to sign-up. Similar to Bookfunnel but for entire publications instead of just one book.
But going back to the lack of proper directory. This is what’s missing. A proper website that can showcase serialized fiction, short stories, etc in a way that visually excites a reader to want to read the work. Unfortunately, such a venture is just not possible on Substack just for the simple fact that it lacks the ability to put images side by side. Crazy to think that if we just had that possibility it would open up so many doors for the fiction community…
I’m working on discoverability through TiF for finding specific genres and serials but as I said I simply can’t exist on Substack. It would need to be a stand apart website where every click goes back to Substack or has the box where a person can enter their email to subscribe to that publication.
Having a name and a place outside of Substack that points to it in order to have better viewing options is the only way to improve discoverability thereby opening up opportunity for things like awards and possibly grants or prizes.
I have much more to say on the subject that I’ve been thinking about for at least the last decade that I’ve been constantly iterating how I can help fiction writers with visibility. Substack is just a tool in my latest iteration of what that might be for now…
I don’t think we need to gamify bringing in readers, I think we just need to bring in the damn readers. Where are the Vella readers going now? There’s another romance reading app already out there, for example.
It’s been a while since I’ve been in the romance publishing biz but I follow a few fantasy romance authors and there are still Book Events and Reader Conferences. And as an SFF reader there are plenty of US regional writer/reader SFF conferences as well that aren’t ComicCon. Substack needs to get its marketing arm together and start being present in these spaces and/or providing tools for authors already present in those spaces. Perhaps a twist would be an online readers convention, consisting of Live chats with authors, readings—and whether it’s free or paid, you’d have to have an account to gain access so the convention content. One could do streams for romance, fantasy, horror, etc. But again would require getting the word out to the reading community and I’m not a Booktoker.
Substack also needs to give a Vella Creator Prize out like it did for TikTok and I don’t think it needs to be a huge amount of money because getting the word out about the prize will bring in authors and their lists just to try out the space (I am assuming that Vella authors were wise in starting their own mailing lists to notify readers of their new releases as I doubt they get to know who is reading them on Vella). I’ve seen several Vella authors already set up shop here. Maybe an On Substack post, or some such that points Vella authors to the already existing fiction writing community so we can support each other. (Actually has there been a post dedicated to fiction the way there has been for predictive gambling (or stock market or whatever that thing was), podcasts or video?)
Hi John. I couldn't experience Vella directly as I don't live in America, but I just wanted to double check that you're suggesting that Substack fiction writers enter a popularity contest without having to submit any actual writing? And this is supposed to promote the depth and quality of fiction to be found on the Substack platform, or... ? You might have guessed I'm a bit dubious about how this proposal is being framed. The network effects already at play will swamp any contest. The winner will be someone who is already popular with a wide reach and who can effectively lever their network. They will spend significant time and effort to promote such a competition, because of the size of the reward to be had. You're in effect suggesting to hand a bag of gold coins to an existing lady or lord of the Substack manor. Please tell me I've got this wrong!
I’m not sure you’d be handing a bag of gold to existing Substack royalty so much as whoever has the best network. Now maybe that is someone who is already doing well on Substack. Maybe it’s someone who has a connection that they could leverage, but isn’t part of the described royalty.
The goal is to get new readers to join. In my thinking the best way to do that is to find people who already enjoy reading some person and getting that person to persuade their readers to come here.
In a reply to Caz I mentioned how that in time the focus should shift from growth to being about the quality of fiction. I think that’s the ultimate goal, but I believe we need growth to get things started.
I think rewarding great writing is fine, but I’m not sure that is as immediately effective at growth as what I’ve proposed. There is already great writing on Substack. Are we seeing tens of thousands of people signing up (in a short period of time) to enjoy it? Great writing works and will grow a platform, but it’s a long game.
The end goal for what I am proposing is capitalizing on the fact that Vella is shutting down and trying to persuade those authors to bring their audiences here… which led to the referral system I described.
I am open to better suggestions and I’m sure that there are better plans to be made, but this is the one I came up with. I would love to hear how you feel a contest like this should be run to gain new users and seize on the opportunity created by Vella’s closure.
Some of us can't have paid subscriber because of Stripe requirements, so that about "getting paid subscribers" would actually exclude me and some other Spanish writers.
I like the competition idea and I love the heart behind it trying to bring in more people!
Logistically, I do have a few questions:
1. Is the end goal to entice more *writers* to Substack, or more readers/users? If it's the former, I agree with Johnathan's assessment that the competition should involve writing metrics to some degree. If we aren't promoting the writing itself then what are we actually proving? If the goal is more readers and/or Substack users in general, I think a numbers metric would be a perfectly fine metric.
2. Are you looking to solely crowdfund money, or pitch something to Substack leadership i.e. what they recently tried to do with TikToc creators but maybe on a smaller scale? I do feel like this is the kind of endeavor that would be more beneficial if we have their blessing/support. If not, who runs it? For how long? What are the second/third order effects that may spring from that? Because this feel like you're trying to imagine something bigger than, say the Lunar Awards or TiF. And that's commendable, but requires infrastructure and dedicated manpower.
3. I'm sure this is the simplest answer, but where are the links generated from? Who manages them? And how does one track the pyramid aspect of it? For instance, if Reader A and Reader C gave my link to Reader B, how do you know which one gets "credit" for it? Basic logistics on that one, I'm sure. But it popped in my head and so there it is.
Like I said, though. I love the intent. If it gets off the ground, I'm right there with you.